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Aug
19
2010
Muslim Community Center
If Muslims shouldn't build a community center in lower Manhattan because a few nutjobs from one sect of their religion committed grave crimes near there, then we shouldn't allow any churches to be built near schools because a few nutjobs from one sect of that religion have raped children.
Or maybe the psychopath killers in al-Qaeda don't represent all Muslims any more than the psychopath rapist priests represent all Christians.
17 comments
Alright - a new post!
La Cuidad [Visitor]• 08/19/10 @ 09:07
Does anybody even semi-sane even have a problem with the NYC mosque? In my out-of-touch east coast elite existence I don't actually know anyone who does. Seems like it's just something for FOX to fill slow news days with.
Doug [Visitor]• 08/19/10 @ 09:46
Howard Dean, Chuck Schumer and David Paterson are Democrats who have suggested the project should be moved. Judge for yourself whether they're sane or not.
dan [Member] • http://personman.com• 08/19/10 @ 09:50
Or why be so narrow with the category labels? Since religion was behind the attack, perhaps all religious buildings should be moved. Drawing the line at mosques shows that the militants in the "Islam versus the West" struggle are on both sides. I shudder to think where fear may eventually take us.At any rate, Danny makes a good point that could be made in a number of different ways, but who will listen?
peter [Visitor]• 08/19/10 @ 14:28
we should be stopped the war in word or in future big wars will start
gweb [Visitor]• 08/22/10 @ 16:26
I agree with La Cuidad! I'm happy to see a post!I would say, however, that the specificity of the apparent intent of the crimes with respect to the religion in question do seem to come in to play. It just seems equally wrong for a Synagogue to be built on top of a site that the state of Israel has recently bombed in one of their neighboring states. Or for a Catholic or Protestant church to be built in a place where a bombing took place from either side in the conflict in Northern Ireland. I think the specificity of the claimed religious identity of the attackers does implicate the wider community and make it more difficult for that community to live according to it's claimed values. Obviously religious violence is wrong whenever it takes place, and obviously a few bad apples don't mean that the whole barrel is rotten, but to ignore the particularities of the situation does seem to violate the claimed principles upon which a "community center" would be built. If a group cares about the community, they are sensitive to the perception their actions will have in that community.
Josh Goeke [Visitor] • http://christconsumer.blogspot.com/• 08/24/10 @ 20:28
I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with building a mosque at the site. I do think it's in poor taste at the least.I'm also a little concerned with the rhetoric of Imam Rauf regarding the 9/11 attacks and Islamic/ist-West relations in general.
I don't pretend to know anything about New York City. I do know that several polls have shown majority disapproval of the mosque site. I also think that, though you may question his sanity, Governor Paterson had a really good compromise in suggesting that the site be moved a few blocks further out. It seems like they could have gone ahead and quietly revised their plans rather than making a political scene out of it.
John Haefele [Visitor] • http://www.fleastack.com• 09/03/10 @ 06:39
Rosa Parks could have quietly stayed at the back of the bus instead of making a political scene out of it. That would have been more tasteful, too.I'll repeat the point of my original post: If we're going to ask Muslims to be second class citizens because a few of the 1,000,000,000 people in their religion are psychopaths, then why shouldn't we do the same for all religions?
Also, I'm sure if you polled southern cities in the 50s and 60s they would have been against desegregating the schools. They would have said it was in poor taste, too.
dan [Member] • http://personman.com• 09/03/10 @ 06:45
Dan - with your view wouldnt all of the 1,000,000,000 muslims be psychopaths just for believing? Seriously - believing in the tooth fairy does make you psychopathic, doesnt it?Rosa Parks was standing up against racism. Surely your not going to put her on the same playing field as a deluded religionist.
anyway.
La Cuidad [Visitor]• 09/03/10 @ 14:01
I stand up for the rights of a minority even if I don't agree with them.
dan [Member] • http://personman.com• 09/03/10 @ 14:12
so you support man - boy love?my point is - where is the line drawn?
To society as a whole, isnt it harmful for anybody at all to worship a delusion instead of reason and facts.
And with that stated - Shouldnt reality be the deciding factor in deciding if the Mosque should go up - not whether or not two sets of brain washed religious people can plan nice or not because their fake gods are not the same.
La Cuidad [Visitor]• 09/03/10 @ 19:59
They can build it. Whatever. But read the Koran dude. The heart of that text is not love, it is hate and it is physically aggressive. The bible doesn't say that if someone wont convert to Christianity then you should rape their children.
Stephen [Visitor]• 09/23/10 @ 22:37
1 Samuel 15:2-3: This is what the LORD Almighty says: '... go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'Numbers 31: 17-18: Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (This is where the Bible says to molest little kids.)
Deuteronomy 2:34: At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them—men, women and children. We left no survivors.
Joshua 6:21: They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.
Joshua 10:40: So Joshua subdued the whole region... He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.
Leviticus 24:15-16: Say to the Israelites: 'If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.
1 Kings 15:29: As soon as he began to reign, he killed Jeroboam's whole family. He did not leave Jeroboam anyone that breathed, but destroyed them all, according to the word of the LORD given through his servant Ahijah the Shilonite
2 Chronicles 15:13: All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.
Psalm 58:10: The righteous will be glad when they are avenged, when they bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked.
Matthew 23:33 (Jesus speaking): You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Matthew 10:34 (Jesus speaking): Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Luke 14:26: (Jesus speaking): If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9: He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction.
Revelation 21:8: But the unbelieving—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
I've heard how Christians reply to these passages: "But, but, but! You're taking these out of context. They were for a different time and culture. Those people deserved to die! Many Christians don't believe these particular passages and even those who justify them don't usually act on them." The same replies could be given by Muslims when you quote the Qur'an to them.
dan [Member] • http://personman.com• 09/23/10 @ 23:15
Not really. This type of hermeneutics isn't really something that you would understand unless you actually made the effort to study each religions theology. I'm a smart guy, I studied the theology of each text. It's not the same. In this case you clearly have to either take my word for it or go see for yourself. Are there any modern churches who are taking these actions? No, because they are not required to.
Are there any modern sections of the Muslim faith who act on these texts or at least believe they should? Yup! Millions.
Stephen [Visitor]• 09/24/10 @ 03:25
That. Is. Priceless. I'm a smart guy, I studied the theology of each text. It's not the same. In this case you clearly have to either take my word for it or go see for yourself.
Well, I don't know about you, Dan, but I'm convinced. Stephen, when it comes to debating, you're right at the sharp end of the wedge. I must remember that strategy next time someone says something I don't agree with...
So it goes something like this:
Ahem... "I'm a smart guy; you just have to take my word for it that you're wrong. Oh, and you haven't studied it hard enough until you agree with me."
This is AWESOME, thanks! It's going to save me so much time coming up with actual counter arguments in the future.
Now, back in the real world, the Bible is clearly as violent as the Koran. Unfortunately for you, you've made the transparently false claim that the Koran is worse than the Bible. Dan gave you a few examples of just how violent the Bible is and the result was the utter failure of apologetics you farted onto the page in your last comment. Wouldn't it be more honest to simply admit that maybe the Bible is just a teensy weensy bit violent too?
It did, however, give me my first big laugh of the day. Which is good because I've just played a pretty rubbish round of golf and I was in a somewhat of a melancholy mood. Thanks once again.
Oh and before I go: If you have to study theology and the Bible to some stupendous level of excellence to understand that the violence in the Bible actually isn't the violence it looks exactly like, how in the world do the vast majority of Christians - who aren't as educated as you clearly are in all things Biblical - know that the violence isn't real violence? You know, if they haven't studied it really really really hard. How do they know that when the Bible says you should stone unruly children to death it doesn't actually mean "stone them to death," but instead it means "send them to their room," or "take away their Playstation for a few days?"
I look forward to your well thought out, reasoned response.
All the best,
Fleegman
Fleegman [Visitor]• 09/25/10 @ 03:51
It is apparent that Stephen has not evolved as much as Fleegman. Lucky for us his like will eventually be weeded out - And the fittest will continue.
Who would want to believe in a God that plays favorites with different people groups anyway - saving some that He deems fit while completely wiping out others - when it is very easy to see that evolution already does this without God involved.
If only we could speed the process and rid the world of this delusion of God.
Maybe in another couple million years.
Repent - Evolution is at hand!
La Cuidad [Visitor]• 09/25/10 @ 19:49
Less controversial?http://us.oneworld.net/article/368158-hug-arab-day-welcome-wake-ft-hood
joshua.goeke [Visitor] • http://christconsumer.blogspot.com/• 10/04/10 @ 21:15
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