I pray that Danny finds inspiration for a new post on his blog. :-)

(And I mean one dated after 14-Jul-2009) :-p

Why do you say that?

How do you determine whether or not someone has really believed?

Te first rule of Bible interpretation is context. The application is not for all believers.

First of all, God’s Word, the Bible, is true. There is nothing wrong or false in it! I have to believe that, otherwise, I would have to constantly be wondering if I could trust it. I feel that if there is something in His Word that seems contradictory or false, then I must not understand something. Remember, His ways and thoughts are higher than ours! Now to that specific verse: Always remember that in prayer, we are to ask for anything and then, as Jesus did in the garden, give it up for “God’s will” to be preeminent. When we trust that God always has our best interest at heart, it is easier to accept whatever He sends our way. Prayer doesn’t always change our circumstances, but it always changes us if we truly trust Him and accept His will for our lives. We may know what we want, but God always knows what we need!

I don’t think belief is black and white. I think there are varying shades. I ask an anorexic if they are fat, and they believe they are. It doesn’t matter what reality is. I think we believe more strongly in things we can see. But even those can be distorted, as in the above example.

So, you could ask them if they believed, but I don’t know that you would get an accurate answer. That is the problem with human judgment, though. We tend to skew reality because of our presuppositions. I try to make it a personal goal to look at things through other people’s lenses. But I do a pretty lousy job most of the time. No one can do that perfectly, anyway.

To answer your question, yes, I think the passage is true, but I don’t think I am a good judge of what people truly believe.

For me, I am too afraid to mess something up to pray with that kind of belief. I see biblical examples of people getting what they asked for in prayer and seemingly changing history. There have been a few times in my life that I knew that I was praying for something big that God wanted me to pray for. Those things did happen. But on the whole, I trust that God has things in control. I have never been what you might call a prayer warrior though, because I do not completely get intercessory prayer, and leave it to others more often than I probably should.

As far as context goes, it appears that Jesus is talking to his disciples, but more than just the 12. I was not there, and the promise was not given to me, so I am pretty sure I don’t have a good complaint if somethings not given to me that I ask for. If I tell you I am going to give you $20 and then Peter comes asking for $20 saying that I promised to give him $20, I think we would laugh at him (well more than we normally would :)). This is a pretty bad analogy, but I think there are a lot of unknowns that you have to tie up before you pronounce this passage untrue.

Line up 100 christians of all denominations and ask to explain any of the bible stories or books of the bibles and you will get several different answers. If God REALLY inspired men to write the Bible then God would have made the BIBLE perfectly crystal clear…….and its not. Theologens disagree with each other. The bible is the best selling fiction book in the world!

Right in the beginning Genesis 1 where it states day light was created 3 days before the sun was created. Anyone with any common sense knows this is false. Adam and Eve had Cain and Able? Where did they meet the women to procreate? The bible is all sillyness……..from a 60 year old EX catholic.

Just like Katie says, there isn’t only one side of the coin.

There are so many wrong verses from which to choose.

@richard: A bigger issue is how could there have been days without a sun (a day is defined as between two sunsets)? That’s not only scientifically wrong, but also a major plot hole.

@ Richard, Hi! the bible IS INSPIRED by God, but it was written by heaps of humen from different time.. and humen have different ways of telling the same idea, that’s why bible is not really crystal clear.. PLUS it’s human who interprets, after centuries..

what seems to be contradicting might actually be agreeing with each other, supporting the nature of God that is beyond human’s comprehension.. and.. God is beyond logic or common sense! he doesn’t even need a sun to make light, it is just one of the ways…

the bible didnt tell what happened after able and cain, adam n eve could have more sons and daughters after that that married each other… and being a human, We never can understand God, either we trust Him or we go our ways, that’s it.

My hope is that we will keep coming HUMBLY before Him and ask for His revelation to us, there is always something new about Him that we, being humen, do not know.

kind regards,

Zhan: Genesis is clear about the creation story but grossly incorrect, and I don’t buy your far fetched theory that God created some other form of light to make the creation story work for you. Where do you get that information from? Thats like hammering a square peg into a round hole to make it fit.

Day 1, God created day and night and seperated day and night with light and darkness.

Day 4, God created the sun. 3 days after day and night. (silliness) but many believe it because thats what they were indoctrinated to believe.

Didn’t make sense then, doesn’t make sense today. People believe because thats what their families told them, because their families before them told the same stories and so on.

10,000 year old earth doesn’t make any common sense either, when many of earths creations took billions of years to form.

You have to use common sense when reading the bible. Its a book that was written by goat/sheep herders who believed demons in their heads caused diseases, and a man named Jesus cursed a fig tree. How credible is that.

First, the Bible was true at the time of Christ. Years ago came the infidels and distorted the Bible and wrote things that are not true. I swear to God that the Bible today is not true.

The Bible is not primarily intended to teach history, or biography, or natural science. It is intended to teach THE PURPOSES OF GOD and SPIRITUAL REALITIES. It deals primarily with states of being and the laws of spiritual activity; and anything else is only incidental. Each of the principal characters in the Bible represents a kind of nature, character, or state of being that any of us may experience and walk in; and the events that happen to the various characters illustrate the consequences to us of walking in such realms of nature and character, either good or bad. Some of the Bible characters, such as Adam and Eve, Moses, Elijah, and Paul, are historical figures. They were real men who lived on earth and did the deeds attributed to them; nonetheless they represent kinds of natures and states of being at different times as their lives unfolded. Other Bible characters, such as the Prodigal Son, the Good Samaritan, or the Great Harlot are, of course, fictional and never had an actual existence as persons; but as parables and allegories they express inner conditions and states of being too, and always in a remarkably simple and graphic manner.

You cannot take a pencil and draw a picture of fear for instance; but you can draw a picture of a human being, and depict terror on his countenance. You cannot take a brush and paint sensuality, rebellion, hatred, or spiritual bondage as such; but you can take a pen and write about great fire, and about a soul suffering torment in the flames, and then you will have an excellent description of the inner torment and excruciating pain of the righteous judgments of God brought about by these evils. Yet the carnal mind is certain to think that you mean an actual human body being burned in a physical fire. You cannot picture a soul abiding in the perfect peace, joy and harmony of the glorious presence of God, adoring and worshipful; but you can speak of an experts musician playing beautiful music upon a perfectly tuned harp; and again the carnally minded people will think that redeemed souls are to spend eternity literally playing harps! The Spirit of God uses this method to impart understanding to our minds and hearts. The Spirit uses outer concrete things to express inner spiritual realities. As Paul says, “These things are an allegory” (Gal. 4:24).

I think,
People who does not have belief on their prayers, does not get any response.

This Verse Teach us to have Belief In Our Prayer and God !

haha :)

I think God will find it funny looking at us arguing whether He is real and whether His words are true :)

That verse used to bother me (it does seem patently untrue). Recently it occurred to me that it didn’t seem to bother the people around Jesus at the time or his early followers. They knew that not all the things they asked God for were being given to them. Paul even records something he asked God for that wasn’t done for him.

But what I’m thinking is that either they understood those words of Jesus’s differently than we tend to understand them, or they were basing their faith on something else.

I came here via Sara’s wonderful 5 Worship Songs post which I was an early commenter on, and am amused to see the discussion is still going. I myself ended up leaving the church where that kind of music was heavily featured and now attend an Episcopal church. Love it.

Best wishes.

The bible is clear people see what they want to see. When you believe and open your heart to God THEN you understand. Gods childern sometimes dont want to see what he had wrote for us. Just like when a kid gets in trouble. “I didnt know” I hear is everyday. Yes they do. As for getting what you pray for. If you are praying to God because you BELEIVE in Him. Then as one of Gods childern you will understand what to pray for and what you need as a child of God. God will provide everything we need. Look at the back side of the tag on your shirt. The side with all the string and it looks like just a mess that is what we see. Now look down on the front of the tag. This is Gods side he sees it in perfect order. We grow as Gods Childern just like Childern grow and start understanding. If you want to get a degree do you just line up and pick one up no you start in prek and work up just like with God and learning to pray and not being such a baby.

Anyone who says the bible is anything but a bunch of manmade, contradictory, evil, immoral, selective text either hasn’t read it, or is a con artist, or both, but no matter which, they are definitely morons; so moronic that they stand on their self-righteous soap boxes and preach that the bible is something divine, in places where others can see and hear them, and they don’t appear to feel foolish. Ouch, it’s embarrassing, and careless. If you don’t understand the nonsense in the bible, it’s not because it is from a higher level of thinking that you are incapable of comprehending, it’s because it is nonsense. Give yourself a chance at critical thinking. You’re smarter than you are acting. More than likely you are afraid of being rejected by your herd than you are determined to use your noggin.

Well I do say the bible is everything but a bunch of manmade contradictory, evil, immoral, selective text. As for reading it I have many times. As for being a con artist I am not. I teach the bible but I have never used my teaching to con anyone. I teach I do not preach. As for the soap box I have a front door and anyone that wants to come and learn and talk can come in I dont stand on a soap box as a self-righteous person. I have no right to. Nor do I have the right to judge the ones that do or that feel the need to misuse or understand the bible that is their choose as a human. And yes anything I pray for I will receive. But I understand as a christain and student and teacher what I need as a human.

O and as for being afraid of being rejected by my herd. Many people come and go but God stands firm. As for prayer and receiving maybe I explained the bible on that one wrong. Take the first person to receive a prosthetic arm. yes a person had the noggin to create the arm but dont you think the person with out an arm sent out a prayer for an arm……. IDK I’m sure I’ve now offended someone. And for that I am sorry. But its just an example to show we pray and by praying we receive. May not be the way we saw it happing but God provided.

May the LORD my God have power over you and your tongue.

NO! A bible verse that isn’t true? Someone call Ripley!

…and this is news? You guys do know the definition of truth, right? I suggest you look up the epistemology of both “truth” and “fact".

Then, you can spend your entire lifetime analyzing the bible in a constructive, more truthy way.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
________________________________

So what some are saying is that God cannot create light and separate it into day and night without the sun. He would not be God if He could not do such a little thing as that.

roger

Friends, I dont even know where to start…

1. The aramaic language that Jesus spoke had many differences to the languages we speak today. So much meaning and feeling was lost in translation, eg. Exodus 3 speaks of Gods name being Jehovah ? the letter J was not invented in english until the 15th century. God gave Moses 2 names when he asked God what his name was - the first one was I AM (hayah) and the second is YHWH. We do not know how to pronounce or translate YHWH to English but the accepted way is YaHWeH. Jesus (or Yahushua ) often referred to himself as God, I AM the bread of life, I AM the Light of the world. I want to encourage you to go and study this.

2. The bible is true. Read Isaiah where the Lord declares that He is the Lord and that he has declared the end from the beginning. Then Read and understand bible prophecy. Eg. Daniel predicts in 650BC the rise and fall of the next 4 kingdoms, he even predicted the removal of the roman church from office in the 1800s…. TO THE YEAR ! Tell me that anyone, anywhere has ever been able to predict the world with total accuracy. If you dont know it, you are looking in the wrong places and thats why you struggle with your faith.

3. Romans 14 talks of differentiations in denominations. Yes, there are varying views, but each must follow the basic principles or doctrines. Thereafter what does it matter if theres 10 views ? If you want to get to the shop, you can walk, ride bike or cathc a bus ? Would you declare that the shop does not exist? Stop making excuses and find YOUR way to the Kingdom of YHWH.

4. Nothing in the bible is untrue, the gospels are mens interpretations that was inspired by YHWH. Therefore there can be different ways to tell the same event… I too have found verses in the Gospels that talk of the same event being in different places. It does not matter, this is literal thinking. Let us not reduce YHWH to our understanding.

5. There are many people who misrepresent God, let that not change who God is to you. If a man commits a crime whilst wearing the shirt of a sports team, does that mean all the teams supporters are that way, or that the team itself is so ?

Mat 10:16 - I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

Just responding to Danny at the moment (so little time these days)–
I think the dating of Daniel is hardly a settled issue. Would be interested to hear what research you base that claim on (honestly asking the question…I just haven’t looked into this recently).

Wiki is not very reliable. Dan, I see you as a very smart man. To say this verse is not true is to say you have already lived your life and know exactly what happens in your afterlife (whatever that is to that person). It does not say when you will receive. As far as I can tell we are both still alive and neither of us know what happens after we die as fact cause we have not experienced that death yet. If you do not believe in the bible then why waste your life trying to destroy it.
Enjoy your journey my friend
God bless

Better explain this before the attacks come from the masses. Most college professors do not consider Wiki a scholarly source.

I think it’s cause you got nothing better to do.

Who ever wrote this is not true it is because god know everything before you ask i serve an amazing god and i know he will answer my prayers