Personman - Latest Comments on Hell is Terrorism http://personman.com/?disp=comments en-US http://backend.userland.com/rss 60 La Cuidad [Visitor] in response to: Hell is Terrorism Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:32:50 +0000 La Cuidad [Visitor] c84124@http://personman.com/ <p>I would prefer you guys wrote - H E Double Hockey Sticks.</p> I would prefer you guys wrote - H E Double Hockey Sticks.

]]> http://personman.com/hell-is-terrorism#c84124 Doug [Visitor] in response to: Hell is Terrorism Sat, 14 Feb 2009 13:47:47 +0000 Doug [Visitor] c82641@http://personman.com/ <p>Hell is a tricky doctrine that I don&#8217;t claim to completely understand. I certainly admit that it can and has been used to manipulate people for selfish ends. At the same time, let&#8217;s assume for a moment that there is such a thing as eternal life. The &#8220;problem&#8221; with the New Testament teaching on the afterlife is that, pretty consistently, it claims that there is a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. If all the selfish, manipulative, thoughtless, bitter people are raised up again and allowed to continue living exactly as they did without ever changing the trajectory of their lives, it seems to me that the society that would exist in millions or billions of years would be a place of torment for everyone (heck, we sometimes seem pretty close to that now). So, it makes sense to me that there should be a place of quarantine to isolate those who would never change (or in King James terms, repent).</p> <p>Now, why a perfect God wouldn&#8217;t either leave those who would not repent in unconscious death, or else transform their will &#8220;by force&#8221; I don&#8217;t exactly know. Certainly, some in the early church thought God would do one of these things (and there is even some evidence for this in the Bible&#8230;1 Timothy says Jesus is the savior of &#8220;all, but especially of those who believe&#8221; and Romans claims &#8220;all Israel will be saved")&#8230;passages evangelicals have to work pretty hard to smooth over. But Jesus, at least, seems to use Hell as a motivator in exactly the way you seem to find distasteful (that is, he threatens those who don&#8217;t care for those in prison, or naked, or hungry with everlasting torment). Maybe that makes Jesus a terrorist, but again, only if the danger he threatens is non-existent. In any case, what Jesus hopes to accomplish by the threat (a society in which the oppressed are cared for) doesn&#8217;t seem all that similar to the demands of most terrorists.</p> Hell is a tricky doctrine that I don’t claim to completely understand. I certainly admit that it can and has been used to manipulate people for selfish ends. At the same time, let’s assume for a moment that there is such a thing as eternal life. The “problem” with the New Testament teaching on the afterlife is that, pretty consistently, it claims that there is a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. If all the selfish, manipulative, thoughtless, bitter people are raised up again and allowed to continue living exactly as they did without ever changing the trajectory of their lives, it seems to me that the society that would exist in millions or billions of years would be a place of torment for everyone (heck, we sometimes seem pretty close to that now). So, it makes sense to me that there should be a place of quarantine to isolate those who would never change (or in King James terms, repent).

Now, why a perfect God wouldn’t either leave those who would not repent in unconscious death, or else transform their will “by force” I don’t exactly know. Certainly, some in the early church thought God would do one of these things (and there is even some evidence for this in the Bible…1 Timothy says Jesus is the savior of “all, but especially of those who believe” and Romans claims “all Israel will be saved")…passages evangelicals have to work pretty hard to smooth over. But Jesus, at least, seems to use Hell as a motivator in exactly the way you seem to find distasteful (that is, he threatens those who don’t care for those in prison, or naked, or hungry with everlasting torment). Maybe that makes Jesus a terrorist, but again, only if the danger he threatens is non-existent. In any case, what Jesus hopes to accomplish by the threat (a society in which the oppressed are cared for) doesn’t seem all that similar to the demands of most terrorists.

]]> http://personman.com/hell-is-terrorism#c82641 melanie [Visitor] in response to: Hell is Terrorism Fri, 13 Feb 2009 04:43:35 +0000 melanie [Visitor] c82631@http://personman.com/ <p>Well, I suppose the real conundrum exists for the person who believes in hell, but isn&#8217;t sure they aren&#8217;t going there then. I mean, someone like you would not be afraid thanks to a sign like that, right?</p> <p>To be perfectly honest, I would not want a sign like that outside my church. I believe in the existence of hell, but it&#8217;s not my fear of hell that motivates me to be the person I am. It&#8217;s my fear of God.</p> Well, I suppose the real conundrum exists for the person who believes in hell, but isn’t sure they aren’t going there then. I mean, someone like you would not be afraid thanks to a sign like that, right?

To be perfectly honest, I would not want a sign like that outside my church. I believe in the existence of hell, but it’s not my fear of hell that motivates me to be the person I am. It’s my fear of God.

]]> http://personman.com/hell-is-terrorism#c82631 dan [Member] in response to: Hell is Terrorism Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:01:28 +0000 [Member] c82629@http://personman.com/ <p>Melanie,</p> <p>Drunk driving, glass and fire are real dangers. We can see evidence of them. We can point to real harm caused by them. We understand why they&#8217;re dangerous. There is an element of fear, but mostly it&#8217;s just a logical calculation. I don&#8217;t avoid eating glass because I&#8217;m afraid, but because I KNOW that it would cut me.</p> <p>Terrorism uses irrational fear. The chances that al Qaeda will cause personal injury to me are vanishingly small. But their acts of violence are meant to make us all afraid. If we get so afraid that we&#8217;re willing to panic and give up our civil liberties, then the terrorists have accomplished their goal.</p> <p>From my point of view, hell is an irrational fear. There&#8217;s no evidence for it. There&#8217;s motivation for people to have invented the concept.</p> <p>If you think hell is a real thing, then you probably won&#8217;t agree with my evaluation of the idea.</p> Melanie,

Drunk driving, glass and fire are real dangers. We can see evidence of them. We can point to real harm caused by them. We understand why they’re dangerous. There is an element of fear, but mostly it’s just a logical calculation. I don’t avoid eating glass because I’m afraid, but because I KNOW that it would cut me.

Terrorism uses irrational fear. The chances that al Qaeda will cause personal injury to me are vanishingly small. But their acts of violence are meant to make us all afraid. If we get so afraid that we’re willing to panic and give up our civil liberties, then the terrorists have accomplished their goal.

From my point of view, hell is an irrational fear. There’s no evidence for it. There’s motivation for people to have invented the concept.

If you think hell is a real thing, then you probably won’t agree with my evaluation of the idea.

]]> http://personman.com/hell-is-terrorism#c82629 melanie [Visitor] in response to: Hell is Terrorism Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:42:35 +0000 melanie [Visitor] c82628@http://personman.com/ <p>Ok, I thought about this a little. </p> <p>Let me pose this question:</p> <p>Would you consider it fear-mongering to warn teens about the possible dangers of drunk driving? In other words, do you think that there is a role for fear in life? I mean, if none of us were afraid of anything, what is to stop us from eating broken glass or setting fire to ourselves?</p> Ok, I thought about this a little.

Let me pose this question:

Would you consider it fear-mongering to warn teens about the possible dangers of drunk driving? In other words, do you think that there is a role for fear in life? I mean, if none of us were afraid of anything, what is to stop us from eating broken glass or setting fire to ourselves?

]]> http://personman.com/hell-is-terrorism#c82628 Katie B [Visitor] in response to: Hell is Terrorism Thu, 12 Feb 2009 07:33:05 +0000 Katie B [Visitor] c82623@http://personman.com/ <p>That reasoning does work for me, but I do believe I am right, and strongly enough to not be afraid. There is a general fear of death that almost everyone has. The fear of the unknown. I think we don&#8217;t talk about it enough. I can see that it could bring fear, and fear does move people to action, but that action depends more upon the person than the person exciting the fear. Just as it did with you. It made you anger. It didn&#8217;t do a darn thing to me, because I believe so strongly in one direction. Just like you saying that I better be right about the existence of Jahannam. Doesn&#8217;t do anything for me. I can understand that since it was Emma, though, that it is more concerning. I am concerned about the stupid Dream Girls billboard that is posted on our way home (that has practically naked women on it). I wish I could convict them for being terrorists because they are influencing my girls in a negative way. But all I can do is talk to the girls about it and write a letter (or a blog post). Or, if I wanted to be a terrorist I could find out where they live. Anyway, now I am ranting, so I better stop.<br /> <br /></p> That reasoning does work for me, but I do believe I am right, and strongly enough to not be afraid. There is a general fear of death that almost everyone has. The fear of the unknown. I think we don’t talk about it enough. I can see that it could bring fear, and fear does move people to action, but that action depends more upon the person than the person exciting the fear. Just as it did with you. It made you anger. It didn’t do a darn thing to me, because I believe so strongly in one direction. Just like you saying that I better be right about the existence of Jahannam. Doesn’t do anything for me. I can understand that since it was Emma, though, that it is more concerning. I am concerned about the stupid Dream Girls billboard that is posted on our way home (that has practically naked women on it). I wish I could convict them for being terrorists because they are influencing my girls in a negative way. But all I can do is talk to the girls about it and write a letter (or a blog post). Or, if I wanted to be a terrorist I could find out where they live. Anyway, now I am ranting, so I better stop.

]]> http://personman.com/hell-is-terrorism#c82623 dan [Member] in response to: Hell is Terrorism Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:25:22 +0000 [Member] c82619@http://personman.com/ <p>Katie,<br /> There is no concrete proof on either side for the existence of Jahannam. If you don&#8217;t believe it exists you better be right. </p> <p>I assume that this reasoning works for you about as well as what you said works for me.</p> Katie,
There is no concrete proof on either side for the existence of Jahannam. If you don’t believe it exists you better be right.

I assume that this reasoning works for you about as well as what you said works for me.

]]> http://personman.com/hell-is-terrorism#c82619 dan [Member] in response to: Hell is Terrorism Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:20:56 +0000 [Member] c82618@http://personman.com/ <p>Matt,<br /> Don&#8217;t get me started on Gitmo. I&#8217;m happy that the prison there will be closed soon. If the label &#8220;terrorism&#8221; is too sensational for you, then stick with &#8220;fear mongering.&#8221; Either way, I refuse to be terrorized.</p> Matt,
Don’t get me started on Gitmo. I’m happy that the prison there will be closed soon. If the label “terrorism” is too sensational for you, then stick with “fear mongering.” Either way, I refuse to be terrorized.

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