Personman - Latest Comments on Church and State Reprised

John [Visitor] in response to: Church and State Reprised

Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:29:35 +0000

I was sent to a Catholic School.
It was a blast. The men in Black would introduce their inevitable religious line no matter what the subject was.

Our class never towed the line, argued the point to the death and always had better stories to tell our mates from the public schools, every time.

Out of all the Brothers, only one encouraged and enjoyed our behavior. The rest wanted us expelled, jailed and excommunicated.

Never had more fun, until I discovered the rich tapestry of litrature, music and art, let alone politics!

Having the Pope on YouTube still doesn’t solve a virgin birth or rising from the dead.

I’m inclined to say let it rip. Put religious fairy tales up against “known knowns” and I’m happy to bet on the winner.

Kyle [Visitor] in response to: Church and State Reprised

Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:27:16 +0000

I am a Christian and a teacher in a public school. In my experience, adhering to the separation between church and state is nowhere near as difficult or as nerve-inducing as people tend to make out.

In my English classes I talk about a wide variety of subjects that are relevant to my students, including religion. I have no problem leading discussions in which students have the opportunity to talk about and write about their beliefs.

I also bring up issues of morality a lot, especially when we read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. Remember that morality doesn’t have to be linked to religion.

Last week I heard that the AP English teacher (who I’m not even sure is Christian or religious) was having her class study Leviticus law, from a historical and literary viewpoint.

What I don’t do is try to influence my students in what they believe. I don’t tell them what my religious beliefs are (if someone asks, I merely say that I’m a Christian and leave it at that), and I don’t, in class, hold up the Bible as truth. I also respect my students’ rights to not discuss their beliefs.

It’s really not very difficult.

Katie B [Visitor] in response to: Church and State Reprised

Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:51:13 +0000

I meant that I agree with the concept of separation of church and state.

Katie B [Visitor] in response to: Church and State Reprised

Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:50:02 +0000

I agree with the concept, but it becomes almost impossible to play out. The teacher has value that are derived from his/her belief system. So even if God’s name is never mentioned, children are influenced by each teacher and each religion. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I do think it is a little silly that a teacher can not even bring up the subject for fear of giving offense. We don’t want teachers that have no belief systems, but we don’t want to hear what it is. But as far as class prayer and class participation in a particular religion, I am totally against that, unless it is at a private school, of course.
So I guess I am in agreement with Melanie.

melanie [Visitor] in response to: Church and State Reprised

Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:57:51 +0000

Danny, I figured there was more to the story. I am generally leery of “keep God in school” kinds of things b/c if God is in your LIFE and your in the school, then you probably won’t need to yammer on about Him day and night.

AND if you want your kids to get a Christian worldview, then send them to Christian school. That’s a question we are dealing with right now, but we won’t expect public school teachers, nor would we WANT public school teachers to do the job.

Brendon [Visitor] in response to: Church and State Reprised

Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:40:59 +0000

BTW, minor correction there, I’m not sure if the suit actually went through trial; the stories I’ve read have all said it was settled in favor of the plaintiff. Either way, that’s in her favor.

Brendon [Visitor] in response to: Church and State Reprised

Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:33:44 +0000

As an aside, I saw the issue of jewelry come up a couple times here, and I’ve heard it pretty frequently in similar conversations. I think it’s worth pointing out the case of Miki Cain from 1998. She was asked by her employer, the University of Missouri Hospital in Columbia, not to wear a piece of cross jewelry to work. The ACLU took up her case, and the court found in favor of the plaintiff. I’m assuming that the institution is considered state affiliated, and therefore the first amendment freedom clause kicked in.

You can read about it here.

dan [Member] in response to: Church and State Reprised

Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:27:45 +0000

Melanie,
There’s a lot more to the John Freshwater story than what’s on that site. He was proselytizing. The board asked him to tone it down, but he didn’t. Just search google for his name and you can read more about what happened.

Steve Bitterman (the Red Oak community college teacher) was allegedly fired for saying that the Bible shouldn’t be interpreted literally, but the college denies that this was the reason. Even if it was, why is a group called “Keep God in Schools” fighting for a teacher who said, “I put the Hebrew religion on the same plane as any other religion. Their god wasn’t given any more credibility than any other god"?

When you’re a government employee, there’s a fine line between the free exercise clause and the establishment clause. There’s also a fine line between discussion and persuasion (as my friend Jeremy said in the related Facebook thread).