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		<title>Personman - Latest Comments on Who's worse, Hitler or God?</title>
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			<title> John Akinsete [Visitor] in response to: Who's worse, Hitler or God?</title>
			<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2016 00:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><span class="user anonymous" rel="bubbletip_comment_87231">John Akinsete</span> <span class="bUser-anonymous-tag">[Visitor]</span></dc:creator>
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			<description>&lt;p&gt;ALL OF YOU ARE DUMB PEOPLE. GOD DROWNED THE WORLD TO SAVE IT FROM BEING DESTROYED.GOD CREATED THE WORLD BUT WITH FREE WILL, THATS WHY HITLER DECIDED TO CONTROL IT. IF GOD DIDNT DROWN THE WORLD, WHERE WOULD THIS WORLD BE, WELL, IT WOULD BE DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT&amp;#8217;S WHY GOD PUT THE HOLY PEOPLE ON NOAH&amp;#8217;S ARK. HITLER KILLED PEOPLE JUST TO CONTROL IT. THE BIBLE SAYS DO NOT KILL, SO WHY WOULD GOD KILL ALL THOSE PEOPLE TO SAVE THE WORLD? AND GOD PROMISED NEVER TO DO THAT AGAIN. BUT PEOPLE LIKE ISIS ARE TRYING TO TAKE OVER, SO IF GOD DIDN&amp;#8217;T WIPE THE WORLD CLEAN, ISIS WOULD TAKE OVER THE WORLD. THINK BOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND YOU, WHO IS TALKING ABOUT ISIAH, YOU SAY IT BUT DON&amp;#8217;T UNDERSTAND IT. GOD DOR=ESNT CREATE EVIL. ITS FREE WILL AND READ JOB TILL THE END. THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND!!!!!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALL OF YOU ARE DUMB PEOPLE. GOD DROWNED THE WORLD TO SAVE IT FROM BEING DESTROYED.GOD CREATED THE WORLD BUT WITH FREE WILL, THATS WHY HITLER DECIDED TO CONTROL IT. IF GOD DIDNT DROWN THE WORLD, WHERE WOULD THIS WORLD BE, WELL, IT WOULD BE DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT&#8217;S WHY GOD PUT THE HOLY PEOPLE ON NOAH&#8217;S ARK. HITLER KILLED PEOPLE JUST TO CONTROL IT. THE BIBLE SAYS DO NOT KILL, SO WHY WOULD GOD KILL ALL THOSE PEOPLE TO SAVE THE WORLD? AND GOD PROMISED NEVER TO DO THAT AGAIN. BUT PEOPLE LIKE ISIS ARE TRYING TO TAKE OVER, SO IF GOD DIDN&#8217;T WIPE THE WORLD CLEAN, ISIS WOULD TAKE OVER THE WORLD. THINK BOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND YOU, WHO IS TALKING ABOUT ISIAH, YOU SAY IT BUT DON&#8217;T UNDERSTAND IT. GOD DOR=ESNT CREATE EVIL. ITS FREE WILL AND READ JOB TILL THE END. THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND!!!!!!</p>]]></content:encoded>
			<link>http://personman.com/who-s-worse-hitler-or-god#c87231</link>
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			<title> ullrich fischer [Visitor] in response to: Who's worse, Hitler or God?</title>
			<pubDate>Fri, 03 May 2013 15:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><span class="user anonymous" rel="bubbletip_comment_87166">ullrich fischer</span> <span class="bUser-anonymous-tag">[Visitor]</span></dc:creator>
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			<description>&lt;p&gt;Re: &amp;#8220;Respectable Christian Ethics vs Fundamentalist Biblical &amp;#8216;ethics&amp;#8217;&quot;.  Respectable Christians are generally good people because they adopt and respect humanist morality.  They pick and choose Biblical texts to support the morality that generally prevails in western democracies.  Religious people are good to the degree that they can ignore vast swaths of their abominable &amp;#8220;holy&amp;#8221; books.  This applies to liberal sects of all three major authoritarian religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;Respectable Christian Ethics vs Fundamentalist Biblical &#8216;ethics&#8217;".  Respectable Christians are generally good people because they adopt and respect humanist morality.  They pick and choose Biblical texts to support the morality that generally prevails in western democracies.  Religious people are good to the degree that they can ignore vast swaths of their abominable &#8220;holy&#8221; books.  This applies to liberal sects of all three major authoritarian religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam).</p>]]></content:encoded>
			<link>http://personman.com/who-s-worse-hitler-or-god#c87166</link>
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			<title> ullrich fischer [Visitor] in response to: Who's worse, Hitler or God?</title>
			<pubDate>Fri, 03 May 2013 15:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><span class="user anonymous" rel="bubbletip_comment_87165">ullrich fischer</span> <span class="bUser-anonymous-tag">[Visitor]</span></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">c87165@http://personman.com/</guid>
			<description>&lt;p&gt;Re:  Secular humanist (non-theist) morality:  See Steven Pinker&amp;#8217;s excellent book:  &amp;#8220;The Better Angels of Our Nature&amp;#8221; for a bunch of reasonable hypotheses re how natural morality evolved and how it is (in its current state) vastly superior to that described in any of the three major authoritarian religions&amp;#8217; &amp;#8220;holy&amp;#8221; books.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  Secular humanist (non-theist) morality:  See Steven Pinker&#8217;s excellent book:  &#8220;The Better Angels of Our Nature&#8221; for a bunch of reasonable hypotheses re how natural morality evolved and how it is (in its current state) vastly superior to that described in any of the three major authoritarian religions&#8217; &#8220;holy&#8221; books.</p>]]></content:encoded>
			<link>http://personman.com/who-s-worse-hitler-or-god#c87165</link>
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			<title> La Cuidad [Visitor] in response to: Who's worse, Hitler or God?</title>
			<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><span class="user anonymous" rel="bubbletip_comment_84239">La Cuidad</span> <span class="bUser-anonymous-tag">[Visitor]</span></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">c84239@http://personman.com/</guid>
			<description>&lt;p&gt;Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.</p>]]></content:encoded>
			<link>http://personman.com/who-s-worse-hitler-or-god#c84239</link>
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			<title> diego soltero [Visitor] in response to: Who's worse, Hitler or God?</title>
			<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><span class="user anonymous" rel="bubbletip_comment_84236">diego soltero</span> <span class="bUser-anonymous-tag">[Visitor]</span></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">c84236@http://personman.com/</guid>
			<description>&lt;p&gt;how do compare god and hitler&lt;/p&gt;</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how do compare god and hitler</p>]]></content:encoded>
			<link>http://personman.com/who-s-worse-hitler-or-god#c84236</link>
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			<title> Joshua [Visitor] in response to: Who's worse, Hitler or God?</title>
			<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><span class="user anonymous" rel="bubbletip_comment_83306">Joshua</span> <span class="bUser-anonymous-tag">[Visitor]</span></dc:creator>
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			<description>&lt;p&gt;I just wanted to come by an say that this is the most civil discussion EVER on the internet. I am duly impressed!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to come by an say that this is the most civil discussion EVER on the internet. I am duly impressed!</p>]]></content:encoded>
			<link>http://personman.com/who-s-worse-hitler-or-god#c83306</link>
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			<title> andy [Visitor] in response to: Who's worse, Hitler or God?</title>
			<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><span class="user anonymous" rel="bubbletip_comment_83292">andy</span> <span class="bUser-anonymous-tag">[Visitor]</span></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">c83292@http://personman.com/</guid>
			<description>&lt;p&gt;If you could even consider that God is worse than hitler, or that he tortures people after death, or say we need to think twice about God being a loving and caring God, you need to rethink your belief system! I have only read two of these &amp;#8220;Blog&amp;#8221; things and i can promise you that i will never revisit this site again!!!!!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you could even consider that God is worse than hitler, or that he tortures people after death, or say we need to think twice about God being a loving and caring God, you need to rethink your belief system! I have only read two of these &#8220;Blog&#8221; things and i can promise you that i will never revisit this site again!!!!!!</p>]]></content:encoded>
			<link>http://personman.com/who-s-worse-hitler-or-god#c83292</link>
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			<title> Aaron [Visitor] in response to: Who's worse, Hitler or God?</title>
			<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 05:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><span class="user anonymous" rel="bubbletip_comment_81311">Aaron</span> <span class="bUser-anonymous-tag">[Visitor]</span></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">c81311@http://personman.com/</guid>
			<description>&lt;p&gt;Dan,&lt;br /&gt;
I think you are operating with a woefully impoverished view of Christian ethics.  It seems like your experience of Christian fundamentalism has locked you into a very rigid approach to biblical interpretation that did not serve you well when you were a Christian, and does not serve you well as a critic of Christianity.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You say: &amp;#8220;Are you tempted to deny equal rights to women and homosexuals? Would you be ok with a woman being appointed as an elder in your church? If not, then you&amp;#8217;ve already succumbed to the temptation of misogyny. You didn&amp;#8217;t recognize it as temptation because your book spells out that women aren&amp;#8217;t allowed in church leadership.&amp;#8221;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I say: no, I&amp;#8217;m not tempted to deny equal rights to women and homosexuals, yet I do take the teaching of scripture to be authoritative on all matters of faith and practice.  You seem to be assuming that Christians must take on board every law of the OT as a law that ought to be in effect in our current culture; but that is just a terrible way of thinking about Christian ethics.  If that is how you think it is supposed to work, I&amp;#8217;m not surprised you&amp;#8217;re an atheist.  Large-scale universal principles clearly intended to be applicable beyond their cultural context (e.g., 10 commandments) are fair game for Christian moral reasoning, but other stuff is more delicate, particularly since Jesus came to announce the kingdom of God, and that kingdom has a particular kind of ethic&amp;#8211;I think exemplified in 3rd Isaiah (which was constantly on Jesus&amp;#8217;s lips) and the Sermon on the Mount&amp;#8211;which differs markedly from much of the specific law (though, I would argue, not the over-arching principles) in the Torah.  So, I don&amp;#8217;t think that Christians are obliged in any way to take their moral cues from the specific laws in the Torah that you seem to have in mind.  Those were for then, not for now.  I don&amp;#8217;t have time/space to say more here (though I could say much more), but the bottom line is that if you don&amp;#8217;t account for some sort of profound change in ethical practice brought about by Jesus, then you have missed much of Christianity and you and I are just not talking about the same worldview.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Now, setting aside (for the reasons I just noted) the OT passages that might (erroneously) make you think Christians should oppress women and homosexuals, there is nothing in Jesus&amp;#8217;s teachings or the NT in general that would make one think Christians should deny the rights of women and homosexuals.  Denial of rights is a legal issue not a moral issue, and the NT gives us next to no guidance as to how we ought to legislate.  So, why not think Christians should advocate rights-denying-legislation on the same basis as most other thoughtful westerners, i.e., on the principle of harm to others (as J.S. Mill taught us)?  The main point here is that Christians should NOT advocate the denial of rights because they think someone is doing something sinful (e.g., homosexual practice).  If sin was the criterion for rights-denial, every Christian (every human) would have their &amp;#8220;rights&amp;#8221; denied (rights would make no sense at that point).  So, any Christian who says we should deny the rights of homosexuals just hasn&amp;#8217;t thought carefully about the distinction between legal/political issues and moral issues.  I think the bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin, but I reject the claim that Christians must therefore advocate the denial of the rights of homosexuals.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Now, regarding denial of the rights of women, I just disagree that the bible teaches the things you think it teaches about women in church.  We have two female teaching pastors in our church and I strongly support their ministry and believe it is God-given.  I won&amp;#8217;t do any specific interpretation here (no space/time), but suffice to say I reject the simplistic readings that you seem to be operating with, and I don&amp;#8217;t think Christians are obligated to take those on board (though I do think Christians owe non-Christians good interpretations of those passages).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You say: &amp;#8220;If God commanded his people to execute homosexuals, then on what grounds can you blame the &amp;#8220;God hates fags&amp;#8221; crowd? You might think that their methods are a little harsh, but can you really disagree with their core point?&amp;#8221;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I say: I blame the &amp;#8220;God hates fags&amp;#8221; crowd for the reason that they have a bad view of Christian ethics, as I have suggested above.  Nowhere in the ethic of the NT, or the universal principles of the OT, does the Bible teach Christians to treat homosexuals and women in the ways you are suggesting.  So, yes, I really do disagree with their core point (and I really do hold the Scripture to be authoritative).  I think your challenge might be a more difficult (though still not insurmountable) one for orthodox Jews who deny the change of ethic brought by Jesus.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Final (bonus?) point: Dan, I commend to you a book called Kingdom Ethics, by Glen Stassen and David Gushee.  I think this is an excellent treatment of Christian ethics that would fill out your picture of what a respectable Christian ethic looks like.  I think a careful reading of this book would make you a better and fairer critic.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,<br />
I think you are operating with a woefully impoverished view of Christian ethics.  It seems like your experience of Christian fundamentalism has locked you into a very rigid approach to biblical interpretation that did not serve you well when you were a Christian, and does not serve you well as a critic of Christianity.</p>

<p>You say: &#8220;Are you tempted to deny equal rights to women and homosexuals? Would you be ok with a woman being appointed as an elder in your church? If not, then you&#8217;ve already succumbed to the temptation of misogyny. You didn&#8217;t recognize it as temptation because your book spells out that women aren&#8217;t allowed in church leadership.&#8221;</p>

<p>I say: no, I&#8217;m not tempted to deny equal rights to women and homosexuals, yet I do take the teaching of scripture to be authoritative on all matters of faith and practice.  You seem to be assuming that Christians must take on board every law of the OT as a law that ought to be in effect in our current culture; but that is just a terrible way of thinking about Christian ethics.  If that is how you think it is supposed to work, I&#8217;m not surprised you&#8217;re an atheist.  Large-scale universal principles clearly intended to be applicable beyond their cultural context (e.g., 10 commandments) are fair game for Christian moral reasoning, but other stuff is more delicate, particularly since Jesus came to announce the kingdom of God, and that kingdom has a particular kind of ethic&#8211;I think exemplified in 3rd Isaiah (which was constantly on Jesus&#8217;s lips) and the Sermon on the Mount&#8211;which differs markedly from much of the specific law (though, I would argue, not the over-arching principles) in the Torah.  So, I don&#8217;t think that Christians are obliged in any way to take their moral cues from the specific laws in the Torah that you seem to have in mind.  Those were for then, not for now.  I don&#8217;t have time/space to say more here (though I could say much more), but the bottom line is that if you don&#8217;t account for some sort of profound change in ethical practice brought about by Jesus, then you have missed much of Christianity and you and I are just not talking about the same worldview.</p>

<p>Now, setting aside (for the reasons I just noted) the OT passages that might (erroneously) make you think Christians should oppress women and homosexuals, there is nothing in Jesus&#8217;s teachings or the NT in general that would make one think Christians should deny the rights of women and homosexuals.  Denial of rights is a legal issue not a moral issue, and the NT gives us next to no guidance as to how we ought to legislate.  So, why not think Christians should advocate rights-denying-legislation on the same basis as most other thoughtful westerners, i.e., on the principle of harm to others (as J.S. Mill taught us)?  The main point here is that Christians should NOT advocate the denial of rights because they think someone is doing something sinful (e.g., homosexual practice).  If sin was the criterion for rights-denial, every Christian (every human) would have their &#8220;rights&#8221; denied (rights would make no sense at that point).  So, any Christian who says we should deny the rights of homosexuals just hasn&#8217;t thought carefully about the distinction between legal/political issues and moral issues.  I think the bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin, but I reject the claim that Christians must therefore advocate the denial of the rights of homosexuals.</p>

<p>Now, regarding denial of the rights of women, I just disagree that the bible teaches the things you think it teaches about women in church.  We have two female teaching pastors in our church and I strongly support their ministry and believe it is God-given.  I won&#8217;t do any specific interpretation here (no space/time), but suffice to say I reject the simplistic readings that you seem to be operating with, and I don&#8217;t think Christians are obligated to take those on board (though I do think Christians owe non-Christians good interpretations of those passages).</p>

<p>You say: &#8220;If God commanded his people to execute homosexuals, then on what grounds can you blame the &#8220;God hates fags&#8221; crowd? You might think that their methods are a little harsh, but can you really disagree with their core point?&#8221;</p>

<p>I say: I blame the &#8220;God hates fags&#8221; crowd for the reason that they have a bad view of Christian ethics, as I have suggested above.  Nowhere in the ethic of the NT, or the universal principles of the OT, does the Bible teach Christians to treat homosexuals and women in the ways you are suggesting.  So, yes, I really do disagree with their core point (and I really do hold the Scripture to be authoritative).  I think your challenge might be a more difficult (though still not insurmountable) one for orthodox Jews who deny the change of ethic brought by Jesus.</p>

<p>Final (bonus?) point: Dan, I commend to you a book called Kingdom Ethics, by Glen Stassen and David Gushee.  I think this is an excellent treatment of Christian ethics that would fill out your picture of what a respectable Christian ethic looks like.  I think a careful reading of this book would make you a better and fairer critic.</p>]]></content:encoded>
			<link>http://personman.com/who-s-worse-hitler-or-god#c81311</link>
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