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		<title>Personman - Latest Comments on Kyle's answer</title>
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			<title>dan [Member] in response to: Kyle's answer</title>
			<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><span class="login user nowrap" rel="bubbletip_user_1"><span class="identity_link_username">dan</span></span> <span class="bUser-member-tag">[Member]</span></dc:creator>
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			<description>&lt;p&gt;Kyle,&lt;br /&gt;
You know a lot more than I do about literature, so I won&amp;#8217;t disagree with you.  I can&amp;#8217;t give an example off the cuff, but I think there are cases in the New Testament where the authors take liberties with history in order to make a religious case.  They didn&amp;#8217;t even seem to consider this to be dishonest.  Their purpose wasn&amp;#8217;t to record history.  It was to make converts.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kyle,<br />
You know a lot more than I do about literature, so I won&#8217;t disagree with you.  I can&#8217;t give an example off the cuff, but I think there are cases in the New Testament where the authors take liberties with history in order to make a religious case.  They didn&#8217;t even seem to consider this to be dishonest.  Their purpose wasn&#8217;t to record history.  It was to make converts.</p>]]></content:encoded>
			<link>http://personman.com/kyle_s_answer#c79847</link>
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			<title> Kyle [Visitor] in response to: Kyle's answer</title>
			<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><span class="user anonymous" rel="bubbletip_comment_79846">Kyle</span> <span class="bUser-anonymous-tag">[Visitor]</span></dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">c79846@http://personman.com/</guid>
			<description>&lt;p&gt;Aw, shucks, gringo&amp;#8230;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You make some excellent points, Danny.  I must admit that you seem to be better read on these topics than I am.  You&amp;#8217;ve definitely given me a lot to think about.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I want to point out one thing, though.  You wrote, &amp;#8220;If the creativity involved is hard for some to believe, then they must find Shakespeare, Homer and Chaucer to be stunningly miraculous as well.&amp;#8221;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I really don&amp;#8217;t think this is an accurate comparison at all.  None of the writers you mention were considered historians by their contemporaries.  Shakespeare&amp;#8217;s historical plays are at best like today&amp;#8217;s biopics, or even like films that claim to be &amp;#8220;inspired&amp;#8221; by true stories.  Chaucer dealt exclusively in older tales, both fictional and legendary, and Homer&amp;#8217;s equivalent would be the Torah: a written version of oral myths.  I have the impression that the gospels were treated much more as history within their culture.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As for the time of their writing, I&amp;#8217;ll point to the oldest passage in the New Testament.  It&amp;#8217;s a pre-existing hymn Paul quotes in Philippians 2:6-11, also known as the Kenosis Hymn.  It is believed this was a familiar hymn in the Christian church and predates the gospels and Paul&amp;#8217;s letters.  What&amp;#8217;s interesting is it&amp;#8217;s thematically very similar to Isaiah 53.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This would suggest that teachings about Jesus&amp;#8217; death and resurrection were around very early in the history of the church.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aw, shucks, gringo&#8230;</p>

<p>You make some excellent points, Danny.  I must admit that you seem to be better read on these topics than I am.  You&#8217;ve definitely given me a lot to think about.</p>

<p>I want to point out one thing, though.  You wrote, &#8220;If the creativity involved is hard for some to believe, then they must find Shakespeare, Homer and Chaucer to be stunningly miraculous as well.&#8221;</p>

<p>I really don&#8217;t think this is an accurate comparison at all.  None of the writers you mention were considered historians by their contemporaries.  Shakespeare&#8217;s historical plays are at best like today&#8217;s biopics, or even like films that claim to be &#8220;inspired&#8221; by true stories.  Chaucer dealt exclusively in older tales, both fictional and legendary, and Homer&#8217;s equivalent would be the Torah: a written version of oral myths.  I have the impression that the gospels were treated much more as history within their culture.  </p>

<p>As for the time of their writing, I&#8217;ll point to the oldest passage in the New Testament.  It&#8217;s a pre-existing hymn Paul quotes in Philippians 2:6-11, also known as the Kenosis Hymn.  It is believed this was a familiar hymn in the Christian church and predates the gospels and Paul&#8217;s letters.  What&#8217;s interesting is it&#8217;s thematically very similar to Isaiah 53.</p>

<p>This would suggest that teachings about Jesus&#8217; death and resurrection were around very early in the history of the church.</p>]]></content:encoded>
			<link>http://personman.com/kyle_s_answer#c79846</link>
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			<title> gringo [Visitor] in response to: Kyle's answer</title>
			<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator><span class="user anonymous" rel="bubbletip_comment_79845">gringo</span> <span class="bUser-anonymous-tag">[Visitor]</span></dc:creator>
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			<description>&lt;p&gt;Well done and well said.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ditto.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Kyle really is a very bright guy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done and well said.</p>

<p>Ditto.</p>

<p>Kyle really is a very bright guy.</p>]]></content:encoded>
			<link>http://personman.com/kyle_s_answer#c79845</link>
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