McGovern’s “Safe and Orderly Withdrawal Act”

HR 508, “Bring the Troops Home and Iraqi Restoration Act", Woolsey, Lee, Waters

HJ Re. 18 which calls for redeployment, Murtha

HR 455 “Protect the Troops and Bring Them Home Act” by Nadler, this calls for the safe and orderly withdrawal of US Forces from Iraq by 31DEC07.

There’s more I’m sure.

I am going to specifically address you in hopes you’ll reconsider your positions.

“1/Qustioning the war is your right, but it does undermine support for the troops and supplies propoganda for the enemy who uses it to recruit more people to kill us troops. You “support” feels like hatred to most of us troops. If thats what you call support, you can keep it.”

This is faulty binary thinking. Tying in support for the war with the soldiers is a strawman. Of course people support all Service Members but it’s certainly not their obligation to support the war and policies of which got us in this mess in the first place. I am a soldier but emotional arguments like yours can only go so far.

Questioning the war does not embolden the enemy. Bill O’Reilly himself states we should’ve never invaded in the first place. How do you like them apples? Listen, linaear binary thinking is too simplified; we’re talking of a very complex thing here. You need more than rhetoric as it’s going to be hard to get folks to listen to you. It was indeed difficult for me to read and digest your remarks and not because I didn’t simply disagree with them but because they’re so far off.

“3/ Defeat is not a viable plan. Try a REAL plan.” This leads me to believe you really haven’t given much thought to this entire matter. Instead, pride and testosterone and bravado have taken over. Listen to reason. The war is lost, it was lost the moment our administration decided to exagerate and fabricate evidence to get us in this entire mess in the first place. Col. Anne Wright, Lt. Col. Wilkerson and other defectors share the same sentiments of this purposefully fixed evidence.

“5/ True. At which point congress takes the blame for the result.
6/ See #5″ Rhetoric. So how do you feel about this administration not telling us the truth in regards to “evidence.” At which point will they take blame? What about improper training? VA bens? Nontesting for DU? Inadequate bens for PTSD’ers? When will this administration take blame for the chaos they’ve started over blatantly false pretenses?

Tell me, enlighten me, do you really think a temporary 10% increase in more troops will make things rosey again? That is what they were during Husseins rule? Sure, we can all agree he was a ruthless dictator but there was order and nothing close to the chaos we’re witnessing now which was caused by the US’s and Britain’s policies.

“7/ The media is part of the problem in iraq. They are outright lying to you. They present enemy propoganda as fact. I know this because i saw it first hand over there.” Can you be a little less specific here? Throw us a bone here. Sure, yeah… the media isn’t perfect. Any of us here will vouch for that no problem. But will you as easily and readily admit that our administration has lied to us? The evidence is there, finally a majority of Americans see it as history and fact now so my point remains, will you as readily blame the media see that it’s a two way street?

“8/ Its not that its too late, its that it is meaningless and will not solve any problems. These “lies” you speak of actualy have never been proven to be lies. Again that is media manipulation.” More rhetoric. Meaningless to get us into another mess? To review history ad nauseam is meaningless? Tell me, exactly what planet are you living on?

The rough definition of an idiot is a person who keeps doing the same thing and expects a different result.

Don’t be an idiot, don’t let your rank go to head. Afterall, it’s only rank… brass, clothe, pieces of colored ribbon. I can tell you honestly at the very beginning of this war I did support it but only briefly. That’s not “hatred” for the troops… I am one of them. That’s not unAmerican. I am American and I’ve put in my time and certainly have the paygrade to prove it. My opinions don’t undermine the troops, it’s the failed policy, as put forth by John McCain, that undermine the troops.

You seriously need to do your homework. I almost didn’t pay you any mind, but seriously and respectfully you really need to do your homework and study hard. I bounce back and forth all the time.

I’m at the point that I just totally dislike any and all politicians. I dislike DC, having personally been there and walked the halls of congress, that it moves atrociously slow while citing it’s a messy and expensive process. I cannot stand career politicians. I cannot stand Generals who for fear of the careers will tell their leaders that all is well and rosey meanwhile things are going to hell in a handbasket. See General Casey’s statements today at the Armed Services Committee.

This isn’t to say that we don’t work hard. I’ll bend over backwards for my soldiers but I’ll be damned if anyone over my watch is given an irresponsible order. You bet I’ll speak up, it’s my responsibility as a citizen and more importantly as an NCO. I love my country, I’ll die for my country. It’s my duty to speak up when things go awry and they are going awry, we have been duped. It’s time to make things right, it’s time for service men (like you and I) and women to speak up.

That is all.

tsss..bullshit

2 - How does questioning the war embolden the enemy? You say it gives propaganda for the enemy. Do you really not think that the mere presence of the U.S. is Iraq is a far worse kind of propaganda that emboldens the enemy?

3 - Getting out does not equate with defeat.

4 - And starting a nuclear war will be better? If the US attacks Iran, Iran attacks Israel almost immediately. Are you willing to “sacrifice” Israel in order to attack Iran? I know that I would rather try talking first.

5 - Congress takes the blame for putting an end to Bush’s failed policy? Maybe, but fewer people probably die.

6 - Congress would have no blame if they pass a resolution, which may be why the refuse to do anything more than a non-binding resolution.

7 - Can you give examples of how the media is lying? Can you give examples of their presentation of “enemy propaganda?” I don’t doubt that progress has been made in many places. But I would like to see some evidence of some of your assertions.

8 - It is far from meaningless. First of all, figuring out what went wrong (hopefully) prevents the same wrongs from occurring again. Secondly, people can and should be held accountable for their actions - actions which have led to thousands and thousands of people dying. And these lies have never been proven to be lies? No WMDs. No imminent threat. No link to al-Qaeda or 9/11. Are you trying to assert that these justifications are true?

I don’t doubt that you saw a lot of progress in Iraq. No, that doesn’t make the news very often. That doesn’t mean that the news media is lying when they report problems. Can you give me specific instances of media lies?